Worse case scenario: 60+ Sen. dems, House maj. + Obama

The political dialogue on this site and in Congress show that the worse thing for our party would be to acheive a filibuster proof Senate, retain the House Majority and for Obama  to win the White House.  

(Best case scenario is for Obama to win, Dems get to 53 in the senate, House dems get about 250 seats--I'll explain why later)

We had a preview of this after the 1992 elections where Democrats held 57 seats in the Senate and 258 in the House.

The problem is the excessive power of the extreme left wing here and as demonstrated by many members of Congress.

The zeal to criminalize politics in terms of going after Bush, Rove, etc.

The determination to fight for exteme political positions on varoius issues concerning the environment, foreign policy, homeland security, marriage, and other important issues.

The disposition that debate is not tolerated because only racists, backward thinking evil types, etc. would oppose the preferred view.

I've had people accuse me of being everything but a child of God for advocating mainstream viewpoints not only in the nation but ALSO IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

I make a statement that is clearly true:

Racism is not a factor in the average life of African Americans.  

or

we should explore all options in dealing with the energy crisis including more oil drilling, nuclear power, conservation, alternative energy, etc.

or

we need to explore totally new solutions in education rather than more plans that leave children in the same schools while the next plan is iniatated.

By having a filibuster proof senate, the debate would be largely within the Dem. party.  That would soon turn to top-down thinking and working to keep "all the troops in line".  Republicans and moderates with good ideas could be and probably would be ignored in many cases.

That is why 53 is a good number in the Senate.  This would mean that more indepedent minded senators like Pryor, Nelson (ne), Feinstein, Nelson (fl),Salazaar, and others could force good ideas into consideration.

Also, then Lieberman wouldn't have such a threat over the head of Dems.  I think in this case, Lieberman would revert back to his generally liberal and indepedent self, rather than the power-hungry person we've seen over the past few years.

The last time Dems had a chance to govern, we almost ruled the party out of existence.

The Republicans have followed suit and are there now.

Why not try to do what's right, and ignore the extremes?

BTW.:

I define the "extremes" as people who offer ideas without evidence and not dealing in reality.

Like impeaching Bush.
Like wanting higher gas prices.
Like opposing every education reform.
Like supporting open borders and legalization of all illegals.

If we become more responsible here, by debating issues seriously, and working to improve our viewpoints, rather than name calling and attacks, then we could actually be safe in getting and deserving full control of government.



Display:


Ha. (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, that would suck.  It would be like FDR all over again.

Better hurry up and pull the McLever!


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:17:36 PM EST

Re: Ha. (none / 0)

i'm voting obama,

my first preference would be for dems on the left to start having more sense.

but lacking that, I'm hoping for a win but not too big.

when fdr was pres., dems had a really, really big tent.

maybe even too big as it included racists and other unsavory types


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ha. (none / 0)

Well you'll probably get your wish: there are no reasonable projections that the Democrats are going to get over 60 seats.  At least not this far from election day.

Be that as it may, the only way to follow your advice or to take your diary to heart is to work against the election of Democrats.  It just so happens that the latest GOP talking point is along these lines: "let's not give either party unfettered control".


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ha. (none / 0)

mccain is a horrible candidate.  He is making some really dumb mistakes. Like flip flopping, then denying it, and its' all on tape.

He suffers from comparison in almost every respect.

Dems are totally charged up.

Obama will make history.

This election could rival a Reagan sweep.

So I'm trying to talk some sanity here online and get people thinking responsibly, because last time we almost lost every single thing.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:33:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Worse case scenario: 60+ Sen. dems, House maj. (2.00 / 3)

I make a statement that is clearly true:

Racism is not a factor in the average life of African Americans.  

You're doing the thing where you state opinions as facts.  You should really stop doing that, particularly if you're not going to present any evidence to support your claims or address the massive amount of evidence that would seem to contradict your argument.

Simply saying something is "clearly true" does not make it so.  You should really be more careful about these things.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:19:50 PM EST

do i have to give evidence. (2.00 / 1)

that the weather is hotter in the summer than the winter?

Name any black person you know, and ask them to go through their life.

I'm black.

I know 100's of other black people from:

business owners,
school teachers,
regular shift workers,
part-time workers
unemployed types

Each one has their own concerns in life.
Racism is not one of them on a daily basis.

It isn't a debatable point until people start playing politics.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:23:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do i have to give evidence. (none / 0)

do i have to give evidence that the weather is hotter in the summer than the winter?

If you were asked for it, it would be rather easy to provide, no?

There are many who would disagree with your statement, and they can also very likely talk about "100s of other black people" who agree with them.  That alone makes your statement not "clearly true" and thus a statement in dispute.  You can say that's your opinion, but when you state it as "clearly true" fact you have to be able to provide evidence.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do i have to give evidence. (2.00 / 1)

Over 9 million black households earn over $100,000.

Over 10 million hispanic households earn over $100,000.

yet

over

23 million white households earn less than $25,000.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.h tml

I use the above extropation to show that many, many blacks, and hispanics are doing better than average white people.

Of course there are counter arguments to be made with statistics.

But it is a fact, racism is not a part of daily lives where 31% of black households earn more than $50,0000; which is more than the median for whites.

What kind of racism is that?


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do i have to give evidence. (none / 0)

Wow, you just listed off a series of statistics that have absolutely nothing to do with each other. "31% of black households make more than the median for white households, therefore there is no racism". This would probably be a better argument if, say 50% of black households made more than the median for white households. Also, the fact that wealthy black and hispanic people make more than poor white people is not an argument, it's just an exercise in stating the dumbfoundingly obvious. Another example:

The richest 1% of Native Americans make more than the poorest 1% of Whites, therefore Native Americans clearly have a huge advantage in our society.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do i have to give evidence. (2.00 / 1)

That 30% of black households make more than the median for whites shows that millions and millions of blacks are living in middle class.

It is self-evident.  I tried to tell you before.

There are racial disparities, but they can be explained without talking race.

The fact is, 2 teachers making over $100,000; with a nice house, 2 cars, etc.

are focused on their lives and racism doesn't come into play.

The same for a single mom working to put her kid through school.

Democrats need to be progressive in their thinking about race and policy and stop insulting the millions of people who get ignored:

poor white people.

Your comments about the richest 1% is illustative, because the facts show 30% and even more for hispanics.

These are not insignificant.

Police don't routinely stop anyone, including blacks, hispanics, etc.

People are able to shop, live, etc. where they want.

People are able to start businesses, where they want.

Democrats here and elsewhere should take credit for a successful civil rights movement, and move on to helping those in need today.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do i have to give evidence. (2.00 / 1)

The thing is, none of the things that you say are self-evident actually are, and none of the statistics you site actually have anything to do with the points you are trying to argue. I'd be glad to have this debate, but I'd prefer to do it with someone who actually has an argument to make, rather than a series of "facts" he likes to state as unequivocal truth with no support. Especially since your views seem to represent some bizarro-America, a  utopia that I've certainly never experienced.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do i have to give evidence. (2.00 / 1)

ay. apparently you live in Pleasantville or something.

there are poor people of every color. maybe you should concern youself with poor people in general rather than singling out 'poor white people.'

You trying to minimalize the racism people of color experience is very insulting.


by alyssa chaos on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do i have to give evidence. (2.00 / 2)

It is heartening that you haven't experienced significant racism nor have the black people you know. However, it is indisputable that your characterization of racism is very much in the minority among blacks in this country.

Allow me to quote from the NYT's article last week that summarized a huge study of race relations, available here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/us/pol itics/16poll.html

"Nearly 60 percent of black respondents said race relations were generally bad, compared with 34 percent of whites. Four in 10 blacks say that there has been no progress in recent years in eliminating racial discrimination; fewer than 2 in 10 whites say the same thing. And about one-quarter of white respondents said they thought that too much had been made of racial barriers facing black people, while one-half of black respondents said not enough had been made of racial impediments faced by blacks...

Nearly 70 percent of blacks said they had encountered a specific instance of discrimination based on their race, compared with 62 percent in 2000; 26 percent of whites said they had been the victim of racial discrimination. (Over 50 percent of Hispanics said they had been the victim of racial discrimination.)

And when asked whether blacks or whites had a better chance of getting ahead in today's society, 64 percent of black respondents said that whites did. That figure was slightly higher even than the 57 percent of blacks who said so in a 2000 poll by The Times. And the number of blacks who described racial conditions as generally bad in this survey was almost identical to poll responses in 2000 and 1990."


by tomchaps on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

racist cops are a problem in my town (2.00 / 1)

I testified at the trial of a Black motorist who was Tasered as the result of a police stop. At the scene the cops said the officer pulled the guy over for a bad tail light. Later the cops changed it to a seat belt violation. After the motorist was Tasered the cops charged him with resisting arrest--a charge that he was found not guilty even though the police lied to make the charge stick.

As a result of being Tasered the motorist defecated. The police gave him paper pants and took away his pants and shoes. After holding him for five hours the police department discharged him in bare feet without socks (and his car had been impounded) on a freezing day.

Just so you don't think this is an anomoly, Sgt. Mike Murphy beat (with his baton) and used pepper spray on a homeless Black man. The county prosecutor declined to prosecute Murphy for any misconduct even though he had been publicly accused of being a serial abuser. It took the feds to take jurisdiction and prosecute Murphy. Even after Murphy had been found guilty in court (including pleading guilty) the mayor and chief of police Murphy didn't do anything substantially wrong, he merely had to plead guilty to avoid a longer sentence at trial.

But hey, I heard a Black guy said racism isn't a problem online.


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Senate (none / 0)

It's very unlikely that the Dems would get to 60.  


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:28:33 PM EST

Re: Senate (2.00 / 1)

According to www.fivethiryeight.com, which has a very good trakcing system (scroll down on the right side for chart), it's at about 14% right now...


by tomchaps on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Senate (none / 0)

Hadn't looked recently.  That's pretty high.


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:08:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I make a statement that is clearly true (none / 0)

The diarist takes cues from a leprechaun that lives in his sock drawer.

Though now that you mention it, I do feel the need to apologize for my extremist views that criminal acts should be prosecuted, it is in our interest to protect the environment, and that equal rights should apply to everyone. I'm clearly way out on the fringe there. I also didn't know that "higher gas prices" and "education is fine the way it is" were liberal views. At this point your stereotypes have crossed the line into nonsensical.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:29:46 PM EST

Re: Worse case scenario: 60+ Sen. dems, House maj. (2.00 / 3)

You act like it's just the Left wing that's unreasonable.  But would "centrism" really be much better?  All that seems to get us is stalemate on the important issues and a bunch of corporate bailouts.  Witness the budget deficit and congressional approval ratings.


by the mollusk on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:38:24 PM EST

Re: Worse case (none / 0)

people who for instance will refuse to support drilling in the u.s. no matter what are who i'm talking about.

It's not that there's not some aspect of truth to their position, but they have blinders on, and refuse to debate the real facts.

For example: we have so many technological advances that can prevent environmental damage--but it is ignored.

or

they argue nothing will be produced for 10 years from some of these place--when they've been blocking it for over 10 years!


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Worse case (2.00 / 1)

"we have so many technological advances that can prevent environmental damage"

Is almost always the preamble to an environmental disaster.

This isn't to say that maybe some drilling could take places in some areas.  But I still haven't heard a good reason (and there may be one) as to why drilling has not begun in places like the Arctic Petroleum Reserve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pe troleum_Reserve%E2%80%93Alaska)
or on the vast majority of leased land on the continental shelf which is currently open to drilling.


by the mollusk on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:01:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: go to online sites on our side (none / 0)

read carefully, and they don't want any drilling, any time.

your statement about "maybe some drilling" would only be acceptable if they thought it was a ploy to sound reasonable.

There are those on our side who want gas to go even higher because it will force us to stop driving so much, etc.

Right now, they are coy and smart to lay low, in a filibuster proof senate they feel why wait any longer and they become intolerable.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:05:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: go to online sites on our side (2.00 / 3)

You realize that if we start drilling here that oil is not shipped directly to the American people. It goes to the oil companies, who are still under no obligation to lower prices. The only thing that's going to force their hand on that is changes in consumer behavior, which are going to occur regardless of if we drill here.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:09:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: go to online sites on our side (2.00 / 2)

actually, you can add me to the list of people who would like to see gas prices go higher.  part of this is so we drive less, i suppose.  but there is a larger issue of community development and urban sprawl.  part of this is also because cheap transportation is what makes shipping Elmo dolls from China affordable.  i know this is a deeply unpopular sentiment, but there you have it.


by the mollusk on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:23:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: go to online sites on our side (2.00 / 1)

I suppose I just wish we could address all those issues without gas prices going higher. Unrealistic I know, but I don't like seeing people get hit hard even if it is partially due to their own lack of foresight.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:27:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ummm... (2.00 / 2)

This is one of the weirdest things I've ever read.

Yes, I understand the problem of trying to "overextend" power and the backlash that can result, but we're still having elections to determine who people want to serve.  I don't think 60+ votes in the senate would necessarily lead to, as you say, the "criminalization of politics" (which is a stupid right-wing talking point to let Republicans do whatever they want, btw), but it would almost definitely lead to things that most Americans want that Republicans have been blocking for over a decade: Universal health care, better minimum wage (yes, better than what finally passed), better energy and environmental proposals, etc.

Even if we only got 2 years with this sort of trifecta, the changes and legislation that could be passed could be beneficial for generations.  That's something that could only strengthen the democratic brand.


by leshrac55 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:41:40 PM EST

Re: Ummm... (none / 0)

look what happened to republicans in 2000 +

and democrats in 1992 +

the problem is the extremes in the parties who won't focus on what's best for the country.

we could change that here, but people don't seem willing.

The republicans have done the same.

Limbaugh used to talk about how democrats lose at the ballot, and how Republicans would keep winning, and now he's silent and facing a crushing defeat, left to play "operation chaos" petty games in the dem party.

we should learn to be humble and be responsible.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:49:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ummm... (2.00 / 2)

See, some of us believe that we can be humble and responsible while still controlling the house, senate, and white house and actually getting stuff done. If you want a glimpse at how awesome a divided congress is, check out the past two years.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ummm... (2.00 / 2)

ok, maybe we can be humble and responsible.  But part of why the Republicans have crashed and burned so quickly from their pinnacle in circa 2001-2003 is that their policies really just suck and are based on Rush Limbaugh's talking points rather than some rational approach to moving the country forward.


by the mollusk on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:03:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You undermine your main point: (2.00 / 3)

By labeling other people as extreme and yourself as "right thinking". How the heck can I have any semblance of a rational conversation with you if you prematurely slot us into different levels of correctness based on subjective data?

Even the "hard data" you give is not representative.  And is less than 1/3 of the population of the US. Christ the data you link to proves the opposite point you try and make. 9% of Black household make over 100K 10.5% Latino and 20% white. So white wealth is 2x that of the other two groups. And if you actually graph the data you see inverse planes Black and Latino salaries have higher %s proportional to whites the further down the scale you go.
yes there are people who are black and Latino who make more than some people who are white, but statically your point is screwed.

I would suggest taking a course on critical thinking as you have failed it here, and it makes it hard to take your basic premise with anything by a small grain of salt.


by notedgeways on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:45:14 PM EST

Re: You miss the point (none / 0)

I'm not making a statistical point.

I'm making an obvious point that if you need to use statistics then life is really good.

I remember in the 1980's for instance:

the idea that there was no racism would have been absurd.

-lack of blacks in positions of power
-harassment on a personal level
-lack of opportunity in many areas
etc.

Now today those things have all reversed, and we have people here and in our party who feel something would be lost if they acknowledged and acted on the truth.

Look at Condi Rice or Donna Brazille or Rod Parsons, or the Gm for the NYGiants, or the creator of elmo?

I could list for years.

It is a success story.  From no names to well known.

It didn't used to be true. It is today.
This is an example of Dem's here taking extreme positions and acting like the rest of the country is crazy.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You miss the point (2.00 / 2)

Good thing there's no more harassment on a personal level. I mean, that Jena Six thing was decades ago. Or maybe it was in 2006. Also, the argument that a few black people in power means that opportunities are completely equal has never flown with anyone with half a brain.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:59:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Worse case scenario: 60+ Sen. dems, House maj. (2.00 / 3)

Please give us a list of which Democratic candidates for Senate and Congress you wish us to oppose (and which Republican candidates for Senate and Congress you wish us to support) in order to help ensure that the "worse case scenario" does not come true.


by markjay on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:54:22 PM EST

Re: Worse case scenario: 60+ Sen. dems, House maj. (2.00 / 4)

I for one plan to work hard to personally ensure that this "Barack Obama" does not return to the senate next year.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice one. (2.00 / 2)

Well played, sir.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you skip the main point. (none / 0)

if we as a party become more tolerant of debate both here online and throughout the party, then we could get as many as possible and it would be good not bad.

But read the diaries here, and you realize our party is driven by people who feel comfortable ignoring reality.

On race for instance, many here casually write:

"things are getting better, but"

when reality is so far past that.

We even have a black frontrunner for POTUS.  Something these same people would never have said possible in our country.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you skip the main point. (2.00 / 2)

Please provide evidence that the statement "things are getting better but" is inaccurate. Are you saying that everything is perfect already? In that case, why are you here posting on this site rather than out basking in the Meadows of Tranquility and eating from the Pizza Tree?


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:03:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's 'worst,' not 'worse' (2.00 / 2)

You need to understand that it's hard to take your diaries seriously when there's a severe gramatical error in the title.

The "worst" case scenario, you're saying, is a filibuster-proof majority and Obama as president.  If you're going to say that it's a "worse" case scenario, you're going to have to provide a scenario that is better than that in the remark itself.

You could say "filibuster-proof majority plus Obama is a worse case scenario than a majority with 53 Democrats and Obama," but that's pretty unwieldy itself.  Best to just go with "worst case scenario."

That said, I actually agree that a 60+ majority might end up being a problem, but fights within your own filibuster-proof caucus are a good problem to be having.  

Comparing this to 1992 is clearly foolish, as we were coming off a competant and only marginally corrupt Bush administration then, instead of a completely incompetant and totally corrupt Bush administration now.  Democrats in 1992 were lazy and complacent; now they're energized and impatient (this impatience sometimes looks like complacency; I contend that they're mostly just letting Bush do whatever he wants with the intention to fix everything as soon as Obama takes office).

In any case, fix the grammar so we don't all look bad.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:55:52 PM EST

Re: Worse case scenario: 60+ Sen. dems, House maj. (2.00 / 4)

What is it about Barack Obama's political style, or the track record of the Democratic Congress, that makes you concerned in the slightest that they would suddenly develop an interest in pushing an extreme left-wing agenda?

Even if you believe the netroots embody the far left, why would you ever get the impression that Obama or the Democrats in Congress have an interest in swearing allegiance to the netroots agenda?  Gee, remind me how that telecom immunity thing worked out?

I expected the argument of this diary to be that if Obama and a filibuster-proof Democratic majority continue on a course of cautious centrism, with no Bush as a convenient foil to blame for stuff not getting done, that the American people would get outraged and throw the do-nothing Democrats out of office.  While I have no idea if that scenario is realistic, it's a lot more realistic than what you've outlined here.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:57:11 PM EST

Both Clinton and Bush (none / 0)

ran as moderating influences in their party.

Clinton was a "new dem"

Bush was a "compassionate conservative"

yet they both brought disaster to their parties.

That's because they find out the wings both left and right are irrational and must be dealt with.

Then they pander to try to get some things done.

Then crater and take the party down with them.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:02:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Both Clinton and Bush (none / 0)

Poor, moderate GW Bush, hijacked by the extreme right wing of his party. If only the president had some sort of, say, enumerated powers, which allowed him to push an agenda of his own. Alas, it is not so.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Both Clinton and Bush (none / 0)

we'll never know, of course, but if GW Bush had governed like the "compassionate conservative" he campaigned as, he would be riding 55% approval ratings right now.  His real sin was to govern like a 60% President in a 50% Presidency.


by the mollusk on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:27:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Both Clinton and Bush (2.00 / 1)

I believe Clinton did a masterful job of rebranding the Democratic Party and it was necessary if we were ever going to reclaim the Presidency.  I don't buy, at all, the idea that everything was just ducky until Bill Clinton showed up and ruined it all by pursuing this or that far-left agenda item.  1994 was a realignment that was a long time coming.

As for Bush, it's clear all the talk of moderation was just a campaign ploy.  From day one, he governed as a 100% hardcore partisan.  It had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to throw a bone or two to the far right.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For me the worst case scenario... (2.00 / 2)

is that yellowdem1129 continues posting pure bullshit and trying to tell us it's lilacs.


by tonedevil on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:09:18 PM EST

The difference between 1992 and 2008 (2.00 / 2)

is that the Democrats controlled Congress for the greater part of 40 years.  They became more concerned with holding their majority in the HoR than they did with party building.


by Khun David on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:09:45 PM EST

Worst Case (2.00 / 1)

I think it's telling that this diarist's worst case scenario is an Obama win and democratic majorities in the house and senate, rather than a McCain win and republican majorities in the house and senate.


by Cincinnatus on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:14:57 PM EST

if you oppose impeaching Bush (2.00 / 2)

Are you against holding government officials accountable for breaking the law?

Or do you think the Bush administration hasn't broken any serious laws as a matter of policy?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:30:54 PM EST

Re: Worse case scenario: 60+ Sen. dems, House maj. (none / 0)

I'm all for a debate about the issues you raise, but you should understand from the get go that divided government simply means one where the Democrats can't get anything through Congress (it's not some magical world where compromise rules the day, it's paralysis, much as we have now).

"That is why 53 is a good number in the Senate.  This would mean that more indepedent minded senators like Pryor, Nelson (ne), Feinstein, Nelson (fl),Salazaar, and others could force good ideas into consideration."

By what process do you think these senators would suddenly be translated into the soul mates of Abbie Hoffman if the Dems got 60 votes in the Senate?  They'd still have the influence you're talking about, because the Dems would need their votes to defeat the predictable GOP filibusters on all sorts of issues.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:33:34 PM EST

Barf. (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, if we had a clear Democratic majority with a Democratic president, those crazy homosexuals might start getting equal rights.  Can't have that, can we yellowdem?  I mean what "normal people" would want to live next to two married men?


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:10:17 PM EST


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